Dust Safety Science with Chris Cloney – Dusty Jobs Podcast – S2 E7

Nov 11, 2021

For this episode of Dusty Jobs Podcast we meet on a video call with Dr. Chris Cloney. Chris is the owner of DustEx Research Ltd and also the host of Dust Safety Science Podcast. Chris is an expert in the research and safety of combustible dust. Today we meet up to talk to Chris about how he got into his field of combustible dust. Also we discuss the history of industry and how people view and handle combustible dust. We talk about the importance of taking care of any concern and the dangers of ignoring the warning signs. We hope to get together again with Dr. Chris Cloney to do a deeper dive on the different aspects of combustible dust and combustible dust safety. To learn more about Chris and the Dust Safety Science Podcast visit: https://dustsafetyscience.com/ 





Intro: Welcome to the Dusty Jobs Podcast from Imperial Systems, industry knowledge to make your job easier and safer.

Donovan: Hello, welcome to another episode of the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Glad you guys could all be with us today. We have very special guest, Chris Cloney. He’s joined us remote. How you doing today?

Chris: I’m doing great. How are you guys doing?

Donovan: Oh, we’re doing great. We’re doing great. We’re so we typically have people in the studio, but Chris you’re actually located up in Canada. Correct?

Chris: Yeah, you got it. I was in Nova Scotia up until two weeks ago. And now we’re in Ontario. We just moved the whole family here, which is why I have a completely blank office with no furniture in it and sound echo-y. But we’re up here and

Donovan: That’s how it goes. Or you still have probably have boxes laying all over the place, huh?

Chris: Yes. Just not on camera.

Donovan: There you go. There you go. Now, the reason we have Chris on today is Chris also has his own podcast. The name of your podcast is

Chris:  Dust Safety Science podcast,

Donovan: Dust Safety Science podcast. Yeah, it’s a phenomenal resource. We’ve been listening to it for a while here over at Imperial Systems. You’ve even had Jeremiah, Jeremiah, one of the owners of our company on your guys’ podcast. And we’re just glad to be able to talk to you today and learn a little more about what your podcast is about and how that might be a resource for some of our listeners to learn more and be educated and have a, a safer workspace. So, but Chris, before we get into all that, tell me a little bit more about how you even got started on this thing. What got you… because I know when I was in high school, my guidance counselor, didn’t come up to me and say, hey, you know, one of the job options in the future is going to be a podcast about dust. You know, that wasn’t something that was on the board. So, what journey took you to where you’re at right now? What got you involved in all of this and got you interested in trying to teach people more about how to have a safer work environment?

Chris:  Yeah, for sure. And if they did tell you that they probably didn’t say there were two podcasts on dusts. So, if you think there’s one and twos even more, I mean, I guess the best place to start is sort of where, who I am and where I’m at today. I’ll let you do the same sort of thing with the Dusty Jobs Podcast, because I think we’re going to play this as a crossover on the Dust Safety Science podcasts, and then people will know where to go. So, my official title, I guess, Dr. Chris Cloney I’m the owner of DustEx research limited, and we’re a company with a global focus on education, connection, change, and awareness for combustible dust safety. I’m the lead researcher there, I wear a number of hats and we have a number of platforms related to combustible dust.

So Dust Safety Science, which is where the podcast is hosted. We have the Dust Safety Academy for Education, Dust Safety professionals for connection, people can make requests there. Purell systems is a member company at Dust Safety professionals along with about 35 or 40 other companies globally. We help place those companies with and users that need them at the end of the day. So that’s sort of where I am today. It wasn’t quite in high school when I started, but it wasn’t really that far off either. So maybe we’ll get into that in a second, but I’ll let you explain what is the Dusty Jobs Podcast for somebody that’s listening to this on the Dust Safety Science podcast who wants to come over and check it out.

Donovan: Sure. Yeah. So, the Dusty Jobs Podcasts, something, we started new here at Imperial Systems. Our heart is to really just help get people educated on not just how to have a safer and cleaner and healthier work environment, but also just to give informational knowledge about you know, products that are out there, maybe services that can be done more of the holistic idea of having a dust collector in your facility and what that can do for you. And we started as an educational resource so that people can know more about what we have available here at Imperial Systems, but also just for anybody out there who might be trying to figure it out a little more about their own collector. We handle everything from filter information all the way up to service information. So, we’re still growing and figuring out our identity a little bit. We’re a little bit newer into this. You guys have about what 200 podcasts under your belt is that right?

Chris: We’re getting there, this when it comes out, we’ll be about 160 for our podcast going into our fourth year,

Donovan:  Right? So, we’re in our second year, we have a little bit of a history, but not quite as much as you guys, so, but that’s us. So, you can see more on our website we’ll share at the end, www.imperialsystemsinc.com is where you can go to really learn more about our company. And we have our own YouTube page where there’s other videos that aren’t just our podcast, but lots of other information on there about more of us. So,

Chris:  And just to kind of, to clarify, if someone’s listening to some Dust Safety Science and their trust and the Dusty Jobs Podcast, YouTube would be the best place to go to watch that, right. Cause you, you play the videos and you have the whole thing right now. You’re recording Everything on our YouTube channel.

Donovan:  Yup. Yeah. Yup. Yup. So yeah. Great place to look us up. So

Chris:  Cool. So, let’s, I mean, so this’ll be interesting hopefully for the Dusty Jobs audience and listeners that are listening when this comes out or listening, if you’re listening to this, you know, a few years in the future and I think will be interesting for the Dust Safety Science podcast audience, to hear me be interviewed, to hear some of the background and some of the insights into what we’re seeing with the different platforms that we’re running. So, Dom, when you asked about, you know, how did I get where I, where I am today, that we’re hard even doing this interview. It’s a really great question. So, I did my undergraduate degree in Mechanical Engineering. We have a thing called Cooperative Education and university here in Canada, where you can opt to work every eight months in industry make some money, which is really nice while you’re, while you’re a poor student and get some experience.

So my first co-op position was with a consulting company that was local in Halifax. I was looking at explosion and combustion science. So I was doing computer modeling, computational fluid dynamics developing software to analyze fires and explosions .in particularly looking at defense applications, so you know, high explosives, improvised, explosive devices effects on troops and structures and ships really trying to protect from things that go bang you know, quickly release a lot of energy, doing things like, you know, designing troop helmets to avoid traumatic brain injury or Xining tank armor to avoid improvised devices from being able to puncture the, the kind of whole the tank and things like that. So very high–

Donovan:  So it’s a bit more in the defense realm is where you started learning about explosions and what causes them and how they react and interact with things. Right. Do I sum this up pretty good?

Chris:  Yeah. You got to blast detonation, shockwave when you see the MythBusters blow something ups really large and you see that nice kind of shockwave go through the air and when they blow up a garbage truck or something like that that’s the sort of stuff we were doing, but on our, on our computers and the computer and simulating it. So

Donovan: That was like a kind of an internship is a way to put it right.

Chris:  It was. So, I did three of those over the period of a couple of years in university we started up with that company afterwards worked there for better part of six or seven years. But while I was doing that, I started my graduate research. And my graduate research was in dust explosions. So combustible dust having it dispersed in the air when ignites a death integration can happen, which is the reaction front, moving through the cloud, that’s in the air. If that’s confined, you can have an explosion. And these are things that you see happen occasionally in dust collectors will say happened in processing vessels happen in industries that are handling combustible solids. I thought it’d be the exact same. I thought it’d be the same as high explosive or C4 things I realized before it turns out the combustible dust is completely different in terms of physics and chemistry and a lot more challenging as well, not less understood.

So that was my foray into combustible dust, but the other half of that equation is I really looked at this as being something that was industry relevant. So, you know, I’m doing this military application research was really great, but I felt like I could impact, you know, the lumber mill next door or the food processing facility down the street, or the rubber manufacturing facility through my industrial application combustible dust. And that’s when I sort of started making the switch from, okay, defense industry’s military applications. Let’s, let’s try to take that knowledge that’s there and translate it into understanding these combustible dust explosions and what they mean.

Donovan:  So was it a, was there something that happened in your personal life that you were like, I’m just interested in this more or was it a was it an actual professional application that you were like, ah, I’m gonna want to see what this is like, not just from this military defense side, but you want to look into it or is it just kind of trying to expand your horizons? I don’t want to put any words in your mouth here. I’d love to know what made you go. I think I’d like to look into this more now.

Chris:  Yeah, sure. I mean, there, there’s a couple things that sort of came together. One was just, again, looking and working in defense and trees for the better part of half a decade. I was looking for something that was, that was new and more well, not that I could talk to people at dinner parties about dust explosions, really, but if you think you can’t do that, you know, talk about designing helmets for traumatic brain injury and stuff it’s even harder. Trust me. So that was one part. I had a fantastic supervisor in Nova Scotia, Dr. Paul is a very well-known and respected in the field of the combustible dust and process safety. inherently safer design and hierarchy controls are sort of four of his main areas. So, he was just starting a nice sized research project with a number of masters students and PhD students that was also brought on by industry.

So we had four or five industry partners. So, sort of like this little collective of combustible dust in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The third piece is that we actually had quite a large coal mine explosion in 1992. So, I won’t exactly date myself, but I was, you know, less than 10 years old when that explosion happened. It was only about half an hour from my house. It, it took the live lives of all 26 minors at the time. So, something like that it wasn’t in my community, but the community was in, no, they’re still reeling from it today. No more Jobs, larger employer gone 26 families with 26 missing sons or fathers, depending on the age. And, and there was that whole range. So, when I started thinking about that, it’s like, wow, this is something that can actually impact what we’re doing. Day-To-Day more than the military defense applications. So those three things kind of came together to really start me down the path of, okay, well, let’s talk about combustible dust and industry relevant applications with that.

Donovan:   Yeah. That’s, that’s really interesting. Some personal, personal exposure, some professional exposure, and then just kind of the right place at the right time with that fellowship that was happening with those people. That’s, that’s very interesting. Yeah. There you go. So, so then what got you started in your podcast? I mean, this is, because this is really where we’re both at right now. We’re talking about this. So, you went from doing this research to what made you say, man, I want to get this out there so other people can be hearing about it and learning about it. What, what caused you to do that?

Chris:  Yeah, so I was, I had about two years left in my PhD when I was when I sort of got started with this. And I had traveled around the world to multiple countries. Talk about combustible dust in my research. You know, countries like Poland and Norway and here in the United States. And I kind of inter I realized a couple of things at once. So, I think there’s sort of two scenarios at once. I was doing this really, what I thought was awesome. Research will say really interesting research in the physics and chemistry of dust explosions. But if I talked to an industry person, like it just, it didn’t, it didn’t really throw with it didn’t really resonate. It was like, I was looking at different questions than they wanted answered. So, the different stakeholders in combustible dust, and you have a few, you have researchers, you have end-users, you have equipment suppliers and manufacturers, insurance, government inspectors research institutions like say the chemical safety board or others. I kind of saw that there’s all these groups, but nobody hung out together. No one spoke the same language, no one was asking the same questions, even worse. No one was really answering the questions that the other stakeholders had. We are all sobered up in our own Spears sphere, their own sphere,

Donovan:   Their own silos, everybody’s in their own silos of information and interests and nobody was putting them together.

Chris:  Exactly. So that was, that was sort of scenario one. And then scenario two was just, when I looked at loss history, it was always either you weren’t aware of the hazard, you didn’t have the right knowledge and education to defend against the hazard, if you were aware of it. And if you had those two, you didn’t know who to talk to get your solution solved. So, it was awareness, education, and connection, which oddly enough, now I look back five years and we create all these platforms. It’s one, one communication platform for awareness. That’s the podcast one education platform, that’s the dust safety academy and one connection platform that does safety professionals. So, it was like these three gaps were the things that were needed to progress safety moving forward.

Donovan:  Yeah. Cause some, some people out there might not even know they’re in a situation where they, they need protection. Some people might be in a situation where they need protection, but they’re not sure how to get it or exactly what that looks like. And some people might be, you know, just trying to figure out how to, if they are in a situation where they’re just trying to get an education on, you know, is, is what I’m doing daily in my workshop gonna cost me or someone else harm. And

Chris:  We say four pillars, awareness, knowledge, connection, and change. So gotta be aware of the hazard. You gotta know what is, so it’s not downplayed. You need to know who you can go to, to solve your problem. And at the end of the day, the tools to be able to, to elicit change, whether that’s cultural change, whether that’s change about money spent in your organization, whether that’s changing government organizations and their interpretation or approaches they all sort of drive to that point. You to spirit actually making facilities safer. I should’ve, I should’ve said this at the outset, but Dust Safety Science and DustEx research, our, our mission, our vision for the, what we’re doing in the world is to see a year with zero fatalities worldwide by 2038. So, within 20 years of creating the company not sort of the underlying thing that I that’s, the lens, we look at, everything we do with would this project task platform discussion thing we’re doing next contribute to, to potentially reducing a life lost from combustible dust explosions. And this discussion will cause it’s a new audience, it’s a new group to, to show what kind of things we’re creating to educate folks and connect folks.

Donovan:  Yeah. Yeah. So, so that’s kind of where the podcast came from and where it is currently and all the different platforms in which you can get educated and get connected. So, when we’re talking about that and we’re thinking about that, what do you think that the future of like, let’s talk about where the industry used to be when you started this to where we are now? Because I think every year, we’re getting safer, we’re putting things in place. There is more education, there is more resources, there’s more knowledge on what helps industry, individuals, people. What, what would you say is the biggest thing you’ve seen over the time you’ve been doing this that’s really changed the most in the industry?

Chris:  It’s, it’s interesting. And we sort of had a conversation about this before. There, there is a lot of activity right now in combustion, less, and it’s really important to see it’s really you know, great to see. When I think back the most recent cult, the, the most recent Renaissance in combustible dust dates back to 2006, with the release of the, of a report by the chemical safety board it’s something like combustible dust report. I can’t remember exactly what the title is. They released a report that looked at three incidents in 2003 west pharmaceuticals, haze Lemmers and CTA acoustics that were all major multi vitality incidents. They released that report in 2007. So, a year later OSHA came up with they’re out with their new national emphasis program for combustible dust. Literally while that was sitting on the desks and been distributed at companies throughout the United States, including bureau sugar. So that was released in October, 2007, bureau sugar happened in February, 2008. And they, they found memos internal and bureau of sugar talking about national emphasis program and not connecting the dots that could apply to them. And that, that explosion killed 14 workers and injured 36.

Donovan:  And that could have potentially been even bigger. But during the timeframe, when that happened, you know what I mean? Luckily there wasn’t as many people working.

Chris:  Yeah. And so that’s, and then, then we have a whole bunch of things have happened since then that are really important to discuss important, to talk about and important to push forward. But the kind of the, the, to look back a little bit, it’s kind of interesting to see the history. And I’ve often thought that we should write it that maybe I should write a history book and combustible dust, but the first regulation for sugar dust came out in 19 24, 19 24 regulations of the national board of fire underwriters for the pulverizing systems for cocoa and sugar. And like the introductory paragraph is these regulations are issued to eliminate or reduce hazards inherent in the manufacturer, pulverized sugar, particularly hazardous ignition is essential that there should be no escape of dust into the atmosphere of the room, a condition of favorable to a dust explosion, to rapid propagation of fire 24,

Donovan:  The 1924, they knew they should be collecting this stuff. And it was, as I said that.

Chris:  And so I’ll read you some, like I’m not going to go through, well, I’ve already went through a bit of a diatribe, but I’m not gonna go too much, but there’s a section housekeeping, good housekeeping is one of the most important factors apparatus, which will not leak and permit the escape of dust or sifting out of cocoa because it covered cocoa and sugar is essential. All dust here. Another section, all dust collectors shall be constructed through non-combustible materials, all dust collectors. If you use connection with the polarizing system, if not located outside the building, Shelby located within the pulverizing department shall be properly vented to a safe point outside the building. I mean, it was a hundred years ago. So, the, the reason I bring this up is there’s actually been at least three, maybe four Renaissance of combustible dust just in the United States. There’s this most recent one, 2008 ish, 1970 to 1980.

There was the grain handling standard that was a created after a number of grain silo explosions in particular, they had, I think, five in a three month period that killed 70 or 80 workers in 1977. That was the, that was the second, most recent one. The one before that is the 1920s that was actually driven by insurers. They were seeing all their insured facilities blow up and they were, and that’s why they came home with this standard. Like, well, we got to stop this. And then there’s probably at least one more with coal mining in the United States and late 18 hundred. So, we see these peaks and valleys and peaks and troughs, but the most interesting part is that every country in every industry goes through these peaks and troughs at different times. So just in the last three years, there’s there was a large explosion, poor Akwaaba port of Akwaaba and Jordan.

We covered that on our podcast on episode 13. So, 130 episodes go with Allie outlast gallery was the incident investigator that caused them to audit all of their silos in the country of Jordan and try to come up with a, a grain handling standard. Same thing happened in Zimbabwe that same year. This year we had an explosion in Singapore that within, so the explosion happened in vault potato starch. It happened in February by March. They had inspected 500 companies in Singapore on combustible dust. And by may, they come up with SS 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 2020 code of practice for handling storage and processing of combustible dust. So, every country in every industry is going through these waves at different times. And the real big challenge at the end of the day. And the reason I go through the big diatribe is we tend to rewrite the whole thing from scratch every time and not realizing that that the stuff was created before or the stuff is created by in another country. So, translating knowledge, translating information, we’re, we’re sort of net writing new. And that’s why I love the podcast is why I love the Dusty DAS podcast, too. It’s all about how do you take these experiences and translate them from one to another, which is much more effective in facilitating change than writing another are doing. I say, writing another standard proposal lessons. This is probably a ton of them going on right now, but then writing something that’s net new translation, that’s better than, than doing that.

Donovan:  And it’s it, you’re right. There’s so much knowledge, so much information out there that we can share now and with the internet and with all the different resources we have, we can take that information that we have already figured out in some situations and transfer another one. And I think that’s what we’re trying to do here is, you know, give people we don’t want a tragedy to happen, which caused people to go look for an answer we’re trying to help provide answers before that happens so that we can avoid more tragedies in the future. I think that’s the harder what you guys are doing in the heart of what we’re doing here. But so, what do you think the future of the industry is? I mean, do you think there’s going to be more of this, hopefully cross-cultural information that’s getting shared and that, or what do you see? What do you see the future of dust collection and safety industry? Where do you think it’s?

Chris:  Yeah, I mean, let’s, let’s, let’s talk about the future a bit. And while we do that, I’ll pull up some, some other notes about some, maybe words of caution in the current global system that we’re in. So, the, the future-looking sort of notes are that just like you said, the biggest thing is to avoid the trough. So, we know that we go through peaks and valleys. There’s a couple of ways we can, we can solve that. One is to work collaborative with other industries in other countries. So that the whole global community doesn’t go through a trough at the same time. You know, when some, when Singapore is creating new standards, like they are this year, literally right now they’re training their country on these new standards. Well then maybe we should be listening and maybe we should be working with them here in north America and Canada or Argentina or wherever it is.

So just allowing that global communication to happen from one group to another soar, eliminates or smooths out all these peaks and valleys, everyone’s going through it. And just talking about sharing the stories also gets rid of those peaks. So, we can, we can make the most recent Renaissance. The last one that goes, it goes down again, and everybody forgets about it until something bad happens. I mean, that’s really the solution. There’s lots of technological things going on. You know, we, I call it the, the dust safety hexagon, if we need, need, need another geometric shape in our world, which some people would say, maybe we don’t, but it’s, it’s two sides with three on each side. So, it contained collect clean. That’s how you prevent explosions outside devices, contain it inside the processing vessel collected at the point sources where you can’t and clean up any dust that remains and then prevent protect, isolate. Those are your technological solutions, how to refrain explosion inside and outside equipment. There’s whole bunch of there hours and hours of discussion we had on all those topics.

Donovan:  Oh yeah. And there’s tons of products to help with all of that, to products and procedures that can for the guy who’s out there listening to this and scaling, wow, there’s, I’m getting flooded with information, you know, there’s a lot of squats you can start with just, you know, even if you’re just looking at a pile and go, man, there’s a lot of sod us underneath this. I should probably sweep it up. Or there’s, you know, there’s, this, this shouldn’t be sitting around the collector. The collector should be collecting the material. If you have a leak in your collector, that’s a good secondary ignition source that, you know, you should be collecting. So, for just the guy who’s out there listening maybe he doesn’t have everything figured out, but there’s definitely places you can start. And I think that’s what we’re thinking about in the future.

Helping people find a starting point that they can start moving forward through and, you know, listen to some of your information and some of the stuff we’ve had gone in the past here, that could be a really good place to start. If you’re listening to the first time you’re going, man, I haven’t even thought about some of this stuff that would be a great place to start is maybe going back into some of the topics that you guys have covered, we’ve covered getting connected with your group socially with the connections that you guys have and some education that you guys can provide on just how to handle some of that stuff. But I couldn’t agree. I think you’re right. Yeah. I think you’re right. We’re just going to see some waves keep going, but hopefully our future is getting that information out there so everybody can use it together and we can try to help other people prevent making some mistakes that have already happened in other areas.

Chris:  Yeah. I couldn’t agree more in the, the, the key, if you want to change someone’s behavior is to have the right message at the right time using the right language that they use in their own head. So, if it’s not the right language, they won’t care. If it’s not the right message at the right time, they also won’t care. So, there’s someone that looks, there’s someone that works at saw mill right now. And, and they have dust throughout the entire facility, which actually is pretty common. I’m willing to bet if there’s field, if there’s 10 people that are working sawmills and, and, and listening to podcasts, seven of them have this, this currently at their facility go dust safety, science.com/two. Our second podcast episode is lessons learned from Tucson, us fires at New Brunswick lumber mill. You can go to in 2012, we had two lumber mill explosions in British Columbia that were both multiple fatality explosions back-to-back at different sites like hours apart.

So after the first one, people were saying, all this never happens, right? Like it’s, it was completely discounted. And then another one happened and that’s really influenced work safe, BC WorkSafe, British Columbia’s approach, combustible dust. They really take it a proactive approach over the years. Just a few years ago, there’s a very large lumber mill explosion in the UK. And the, the owner of the mill is up for manslaughter charges right now. I think the trial just finished. But so, you know, so those seven to 10 people, there’s a couple of resources to think about when you start you know, trying to, when that creeps in your head, the oldest won’t happen here, or this can’t happen here. It’s just, you know, they’re infrequent events and that’s the biggest challenge is to keep that level of what do they call it?

Donovan: Complacency.

Chris:  Yeah. Well, the opposite of complacency. Yeah. Try to keep that level of susceptibility high. Like they, you still feel that, okay, this is a possibility here. Cause I guarantee everyone that’s ever been injured and we’ve talked to a lot of them on the Dust Safety Science podcast in an explosion fortunate. We don’t get to talk to the people that don’t make it. But we do get talk to their families and we’ve had several interviews with like that on the podcast. But nobody that was in a dust explosion went to work that day thinking, hey, this is the day. Or they just wouldn’t have went. So, nobody thinks that this stuff’s going to happen. They’ll think, you know, it’s not going to happen to me or, or they don’t have the awareness and knowledge, the connection, or the ability to make change at their facility. If they thought they would stay home.

Donovan:  Yeah. That’s what you’re here for. That’s what we’re here for to try to help people prevent that from happening. We don’t want, we don’t want anybody’s they at work to be their last day at work unless they’re retiring, you know, that’s it. So, but Chris, I just want to say, thanks for coming on. Is there anything else you want to share about where people can find you guys or where they can learn more about what you got on? I know this isn’t gonna be the last time we’re going to have you on here. We’ll probably have you on for a couple of deep dives into some topics that we can really talk about. Maybe get into more wood dust or something like that. I know we’re, we’re hoping to have you on again, to talk about more specifics, but it was great getting to know you and introduce you to our audience. And hopefully your audience is going to feel the same about what we’re doing over here, but what’s some places, some people could find you or reach out to you or look for you on online or whatever.

Chris:   I mean the best thing, cause I, I know this audience is tuning into a podcast already, Cisco, that Dust Safety Science podcast. You can you start at one it’s we got a boat, 300 200 hours, probably a material on there. So, he started at one to start working your way through. If you have a lot of driving in your job, it’s probably more effective to start searching through topics and find one that’s relevant to you. So, whether or not it’s a, you know, a story from a worker who has been involved in your health and safety manager, and you want to understand that scenario, if it’s a technological issue, we are, our podcast goes into the details. So, we’ll cover things like what do you do if there’s too many concrete silos too close together? How do you, how do you protect that system?

How do you, you know, and then everything, we have stuff from, you know, education and the history. And we talk about after, after 150 episodes, you really got too diverse what you’re talking about. So that’d be the best place to go through that save science podcasts. If you need help and support at your facility, if needed a dust hazard analysis done, which we even talk about, it’s hard to imagine. We did a whole podcast on combustible dust in north American. Didn’t say DHA at least once, but we’ll talk more about that next. So, I’m sure you know, if you need DHA, you need testing. Anything like that does say professionals, you go there, we’ll get you set up one of our member companies just in a matter of hours or days for getting your project movement. So those are the best place to catch me.

Donovan:  Great. Great. Yeah. And if you’re more interested in a dust hazard analysis, I’m sure you guys have some podcasts on those. We have a podcast in the past about deserts and analysis, so you can go back and look that up. And if you’re like, what does that even mean? I can go back and, and see what that’s all about, but that’s a really important thing. I just want to say thanks for coming on. Thanks for everything that you guys are doing over there. We appreciate it. And we’re looking forward to having some more conversations with you. If you’re interested in learning more about us, you can follow us on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. We’re on all of those. So, thanks for tuning into the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Everyone out there just stay healthy and stay safe and we’ll look forward to talking to you next time.

Chris:  Awesome. Thanks Donovan. And appreciate the work that Imperial Systems are doing and appreciate this podcast. Keep it up.

Donovan:  You too Chris.

Outro:  Thanks for listening to the Dusty Jobs Podcast. Breathe better, work safer.